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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Aug 25, 2010 4:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Absolutely without taping, they would not have been as successful.

I think it would be hard to count the number of people that got into this band thru listening to live tapes. I know I'm one. Taping made them more accessable to the masses than they otherwise would have been.

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Poster: ducats Date: Aug 25, 2010 9:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I'm not arguing taping led to less patrons at the gate - although I think one could argue that knowing your roomate would be home in a few days with first gen tapes (like me for several years)had people skip stops on tours - but the amount it helped their success imo is minimal. I'm sure I'll get grief for the percentage thing again - but could it have increased the fan base 10%? There's no way that you can convince me that there fan base would have been cut in 1/2 without the tapes. You were'nt hooked until that first live taste - then you chased the dragon from there. I guess you guys are saying I would have never went for that first taste without hearing a tape first?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 25, 2010 10:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

A 10% increase in business is a number many would take . And for what overhead to you ? Some rope to cordon off an area for them ? And nothing before it became official on 10 - 27 - 84 . Maybe more cases of beer for the 1%er security ?

In GD's touring life , tapes where a serious part of the culture . Like little magic tomes . Precious . How long a post could we make on trying to save a tape or reel in the day . Passed on from person to person , mostly , it created another level of relationship . And let's not be silly , but the Grateful Dead is a brand . What companies wouldn't give for this type of brand loyalty . Created in large part to that primitive (?) viral marketing of letting the tapes go .



This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-08-25 17:56:35

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Poster: ducats Date: Aug 25, 2010 2:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

forget about 84 cause we had tapes from day one. and this is like beating a dead horse, but.....

Are you saying that with NO tapes ever the boys would not be looked at as they are today? I'm saying SLIGHTLY different, but not much. and believe me, I have an attack FULL of tapes.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 3:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I am a young head (I'm 23, been listening for the last 5 years and seen 5 post-Jerry shows) and for me, the vast quantities of recorded and freely distributed material is what got me hooked. The notion that every show could potentially hold a best ever version or a never before played jam is what keeps me listening and that is what kept people coming back for more shows. I am sure the mystique generated by that type of performing attitude with the recorded proof to back it up brought in lots of first timers as well - waiting in eager anticipation for their first show after being turned on with bootlegs.

So I do believe that the touring success of the GD is in large part due to the mystique generated by this tape-sharing attitude which was a reflection of the innovation of each live performance. This legendary type of reputation generated lots of album sales as well - getting people wondering what these crazy psychedelic rockers were all about.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 25, 2010 3:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I gotta come up with a new moniker for you DP, cause "kid" doesn't even do it justice (Hell, I call Ring Lee O "kiddo"). I think it's gonna have to be "junior" ("baby" was gonna sound bad, eh?)...and, glad we agree, Junior.

JK, eh? But you make me feel old. I got kids older than you.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 4:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Certainly your prowess with the ladies proves that you are still young at heart, WT.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Junior works for me. Thanks WT!

That sociology paper I dug up in the spring really convinced me of the value of tape trading in building the greater GD community and establishing a loyal and most importantly to this discussion, paying fan base.

Sure there are plenty of bootlegs available for other musical groups that had careers that spanned decades (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, etc.) and very successful financially and popularity-wise but none of them have the same kind of obsessive and crazed (if this forum is any kind of indication!) following.

Not sure the records would have sold as well without tape trading and certainly the GD wouldn't be the largest grossing touring band in history without the tape traders.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 25, 2010 4:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

"GD wouldn't be the largest grossing touring band in history without the tape traders."


Are they really the largest grossing touring band in history? I would have thought Springsteen, U2, Rolling Stones and even Dave Matthews would have surpassed them by now due to ticket prices, stadium shows, etc. Does that include post-Jerry lineups?

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 4:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

You are probably right - many groups have had time to catch up in the last 15 years. I got carried away with my harping.

For example, A Bigger Bang Tour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bigger_Bang_Tour) grossed $558,255,524.

I can't seem to find any good sources for historical totals and neither for yearly totals apart from the last few years.

This post was modified by deadpolitics on 2010-08-25 23:50:27

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 25, 2010 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

You'd have to adjust for 2010 values and factor in the life-of-the-band total, 1965-95. So I'm going to guess the Dead have everyone else beat, if for no other reason than sheer amount of time spent on the road. Nobody came close to touring that much.

And what the hey is A Bigger Bang?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 25, 2010 7:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Forbes in the late '80's , early '90's had them as the top grossing band .

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 6:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Just the latest in a long line of innuendos by the Rolling Stones... its the name of their latest CD and tour... which I haven't listened to or attended. Maybe it's because they never allowed taping... maybe it's because I had a traumatic experience watching Mick Jagger and Keith Richards looking like caricature puppets of themselves during that Superbowl halftime show a few years back.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 25, 2010 5:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

yeah, something's wrong here, if I'm a "kid" and I'm old enough to be his mother.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 26, 2010 6:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Shhhh....I am telling everyone you're 37. You're as young as your posts around here, eh?

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 26, 2010 6:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Right, so I guess I should not write posts reminiscing about "how we did things before the internet."

Whew - the deadheads I lived with not only didn't have email or sophisticated file transfer software, they didn't have cell phones and house phones didn't even have answering machines! Remember the days when you had to hassle roomates about actually taking phone messages - remembering to give them to you instead of scrawling someone's number, maybe right and maybe wrong, on the back of a napkin and then losing it and telling you "Oh yeah Joe called" - wow, stone age eh?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Aug 26, 2010 6:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

My favorite was dealing with the 800 number to get the info to pre-order tickets when each tour was announced. Having to hit redial (well, our phone didn't even have that option) over and over just to get through, and then furiously scribbling the dates and then ordering instructions and praying you didn't have to call back. Although the process was a pain in the ass, it was also one of the most enjoyable as each one of us was filled with the anticipation of another go 'round with the boys and that this time was going to be even better than the last tour (although in 85 this wasn't hard to do). Good times. Real good times.
Now, it's the spine-tingling anticipation of making a colonoscopy appointment. Who says things don't get better with age?

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 26, 2010 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

LOL, but see how memory rewrites things. There was no such thing as "redial."

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 26, 2010 7:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Don't forget to post the digital recordings obtained by your doc on this "incredible journey" to your nether regions (Dire will no doubt insist on a "live" youtube [har!] video feed!). I was quite surprised to be handed a CD with various images after a variety of "exploratory" ventures during my premature introduction to the failings of the male prostate gland...I thought I'd be carrying the big manilla envelope everywhere, but this made it all so much more convenient (if not any less awkward and...ahem...uncomfortable "during").

Hmmm, this hijack is defn not fit for prebrekkie reading, eh?

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 26, 2010 7:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Oh, goodness. This carries "too much information" to new ... well never mind.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 26, 2010 6:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

That's what I can't understand, this magical date of 1984. The folks who introduced me to the Dead had been trading tapes for many years prior to 1984; I wasn't part of it but was aware of it as a very well organized subculture. It wasn't like it was casual or disorganized - it was a huge network of people. It's hard to wrap my mind around the idea that this didn't become "official" in some way until 1984.

It's also hard to imagine how we ever did such things without the internet!!

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 26, 2010 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

1984, I think, is when the official Taper's Section was introduced, and folks could get specific tickets. I guess before that you might be kicked out by vigilant guards (perhaps representatives of the promoters?) But yeah, when I was first introduced to the band, I definitely heard about taping and got tapes from people who did tape trading (though they just copied them for me. So I was just piggybacking, LOL). And that was 1978.

Really, it was part of the mystique, along with the idea that people actually followed this band around. So even though not everyone was an omnivorous tape trader any more than everyone was a tourhead, I'm sure it had an impact on me when I was just getting to know the music. I mean, here was a band that was so good people followed them around and wanted to tape and share their shows (and who were cool about taping to boot).

Seriously, I think those interrelated phenomena got folks to pay more attention to them than the studio albums ever did. Talk about stumbling onto viral marketing!



This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-08-26 14:42:28

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Aug 25, 2010 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I'm gonna say no. I think tapes super-glued the relationship between them and us, and has allowed them the ability to generate huge sums of money even as they approach old age. So yes, I think listening to the tapes then, and even more now, enables us to hear the music with a greater appreciation than even before when we were going to shows. Does anyone think that without this loyalty, Further would be touring now?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 25, 2010 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Only those with kids in college?

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Aug 25, 2010 8:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Especially those. Got to maximize those SS benefits!

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Poster: ducats Date: Aug 25, 2010 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

not questioning the loyalty - just the part of how much of it was a result of taping. those shitty sounding 5th gen tapes we were mailing around the country 30 yrs ago.

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Aug 25, 2010 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I don't think it's those shitty tapes. It's the good to great ones we now have access to and have since the 80's.

My first exposure to tapes was meeting Dick Latvala in 1977 on the Big Island while I was doing a bike cruise. One of the first ones he made me was 8/6/71. It was all downhill after that.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 4:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Although WT and I among others believe that tape trading contributed to their financial success and popularity, it's hard to say how much. I'm not sure there'll be any economists running models estimating the average benefit of every traded tape either, so we may never know. Of course it's fun to speculate.

What if Touch of Gray was never a hit single... maybe Jerry would still be alive and touring with Old and In the Way...?

Still, I do think that without tape trading the band would be viewed in a different light. There's a reason why there are a whole slew of sociological studies performed by various universities about the GD community. Here's one I dug up earlier this year: http://www.archive.org/post/302907/embalming-the-dead-taping-trading-and-collecting-the-aura-of-the-grateful-dead


Bottom line is the GD were a great live band and this is what lead to their success. However, they didn't have the capacity to release the entirety of this live material on their own so the fans did it themselves.

Question is: did the money the band saved in promotions/marketing (due to fans doing that work) amount to more than the money they are potentially losing now because so many people already have the recordings that they don't feel the need to buy the commercial releases?





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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 5:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: the question remains the same (WT)

I quote WT from the thread I linked above:

"I just had to post the above since it in some small way fit with the drivel I have posted here about the potential that in fact all the tapers, traders, even up to 05, in some significant way "aided" the whole development of the "enterprise" and to pull the SBDs, though their "right" was NOT the "right" economic decision (again, a big unknown, but...that's the point; we don't know)."

Hard to imagine tape-trading hurt album sales back in the day before they started releasing so many live shows. It certainly helped them do well on tour.

I wonder if pulling the SBDs and the boycott of GD the merchandise that occurred after that has really hurt them more than the loss in sales from people who don't feel the need to buy anything because everything is so available. If anything it put a dent in their reputation....

OK now I'm just talking to myself. Time to go finish the second to last paper of my undergrad degree.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 25, 2010 5:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I just don't see how anyone questions that the taping was a big part of their success, it's obvious. It hadn't occurred to me before that it was a primitive form of "viral marketing," but that's right.

But I think this moment in time where the Dead are being touted for their so-called marketing genius is just silly. It wasn't a matter of a clever strategy, for heaven's sake ... none of that would have worked if they weren't making awesome music!! Not just *any* band can give away their music free and still make scads of money ... DUH.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 25, 2010 7:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I don't think it was clever,clear strategy.Hell,GD security took tapers gear away through the years before kicking them out of the show.
More,I think,of a "found art" situation.That's how things work usually.One stumbles about until an eureka moment.
I am still amazed how our ancestors figured out how to make bread.

btw-this punctuation thing is driving me nuts.Hope it's better.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 25, 2010 8:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

improving, 6vs8... be sure to put a space AFTER the period. Hang in.

Lots of interesting thoughts above, but I've got another perspective. This Deadhead never "toured", never even knew tapes and tapers existed. I bought all the records on vinyl, finally giving up about the time of the big bang (Touch). Just been a deadicated type all the while, kind of looking askance at the phenomenom when it took on real force. I figure I supported the band plenty with record purchases and a few concerts. When I discovered the Archive, I found, to my dismay, what I had missed.

On to the discussion at hand - I think the GD stumbled into this "marketing" strategy totally by accident - a bit of karma - not by conscious design. The larger public that invaded the scene in the late 80s bought a few albums, went to a few shows - but they don't give a shit about listening to the music seriously, they want to re-live the experience. I know several people who claim to be Dead fans, but don't have a clue when I talk Dead intricacies. Wouldn't know a Dark Star from Space. God bless 'em.

I salute all you guys who listened, and taped... thank you. Jerry accomplished his mission.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 25, 2010 8:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I'm freaking on the punctuation , uj . Freaking

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 26, 2010 6:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Oh dear - I hope you are joking, I didn't mean to upset you. Remember you asked for an editor, which is by definition a person who has turned neurotic concern about these extremely trivial matters into a way to make a living.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 26, 2010 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

It's O.K. Ring . rob has already helped me on these matters . Please cont. I'm a big boy who doesn't want mediocrity . Also it's kinda becoming a joke . high flow even chimed in at one point .

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 25, 2010 8:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Dude . You can do it .

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 25, 2010 9:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Thanks man .

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 26, 2010 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Darned spacey Deadhead!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 26, 2010 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

It's getting worse. I went from the sink to the pantry to find an ingredient for last evenings dinner . That's maybe 10 feet . Totally forgot when I got there . Can't blame kids , music or anything . Grrr.

Up in the air
Juinor Birdman
Up in the air
Upside down

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 5:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Thanks for bringing my attention to the real point of ducats' question, ring.

For sure I wouldn't listen to the GD every day if all these recordings weren't available. I also don't think that I would have such an emotional attachment to the great songs they wrote and covered over the years either. The experiences I have had meeting, talking, and jamming tunes with older heads at shows and on Shakedown Street have been catalyzed by all these tapes.

The last 2 nights I've been hanging out with my friend and his dad, who saw about a hundred shows with the first one being Fillmore East '70 when he was 14... he was at Boston Garden, RFK '73 as well! It was really something to meet someone for the first time and be able to play tunes we both knew until the early hours of the morn'.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 5:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I went off on a rant about the impacts of trading on financial success, but as I re-read your post this is not what you were asking at all.

As someone who never got the chance to see the real deal, the recordings have given me the opportunity to explore how great of a live band the GD truly were.

If I had to buy all my live GD recordings, I just wouldn't listen to the band as much - I'm a broke university student. Granted, I may have been pirating all this stuff.

I will say this one thing: the discovery of the archive and all this freely shared music was a big part of why I stopped using P2P networks for "stealing" music. Not that I started buying albums but I became much more interested in artists that saw the value in distributing their music for music's sake and not for money. That change in viewpoint came about because this music-sharing resonated with my general outlook on life and private property, sharing, etc. and has strengthened my believes in doing things for their intrinsic value and not for the money that can be made.

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Poster: ducats Date: Aug 26, 2010 4:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I'm hoping you're the "kid" from above - don't have time to go back + check. you seem to have a good thought process - keep thinking. I think the fat man is the only one ever who didn't do it for the money. Unfortunately he didn't do it because it made him content either.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 25, 2010 6:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

And that approach to sharing/trading is also a reason I admire Pearl Jam and Wilco for how they earn their bucks and spend what they get. No doubt both were inspired by the GD "business model".

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Aug 25, 2010 7:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Actually, some of the first "bootlegs' I had were Pearl Jam. Used to listen to them a whole lot. One of the first songs I learned on guitar was Elderly Woman... I really like that MTV Unplugged set - haven't heard that in a while, I'll have to track it down.

Hmm thanks for the inspiration, I'm gonna track down the first Pearl Jam show I saw... Vote For Change Tour 2004 9/28/04 Fleet Center, Boston

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 26, 2010 6:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Thanks for all the kind words above, Junior; I have a nephew that also did a uni term paper on the subject, more broadly pitched (though the DEAD figured prominently of course) on the economics of the whole taping/sharing/DL'ing issue. He came to the same conclusions as us, and uncovered a great many sources/surveys/studies supporting the general thesis: bands that take a "give it away, spread the word, etc" view do better than bands that go the other direction, but it isn't easily quantified (I know some will then say "ah-ha! their just talking out their asses then!" but they all seem to agree, so it seems there's something to the thesis...of course, since it corroborates mine, I accept it, lock, stock and barrel).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 25, 2010 10:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Actually, I didn't know anyone that went without being hooked first...but again, it was usually via studio albums, then slowly broken in with tapes.

Did those above mean to say or imply that you actually took a newbie to a show WITHOUT playing AmBeat and Work, plus Harding, Hollywood, and Fillmore 71? Or whatever?

I don't think I ever saw a real newbie go for it without some real background effort.

Agree though, this was post 60s (in the 60s it had to be "live" I suppose), and I agree, we DON'T know the % that needed the albums/tapes to really "bite" and be "hooked" for life...

I just know it's the way we worked in the Bay Area among our group. And, really, we did a lot of it: it was validating to convince everyone that we were right (you've read enough of my posts to know that's how I work, eh?), and we worked all the time at it...for everyone we took, there was always a party or two with tapes and albums to "prepare" them...going "blind" never worked out well, at least for the few we did it with.

And, a first date?! Are you kidding me? Never, ever after a few really bad experiences....

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 25, 2010 7:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

agreed

i dont think i personally know a single person who got into them from the studio releases or just went to a show for the hell of it. then again, i dont know anyone who was concert age during the early years

it was a smart move in the end

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Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 25, 2010 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

I think everyone I know got into them first via official releases. I am talking my friends from early to mid 70's. Live Dead, Skull and Roses, Wokingman's, American Beauty, Europe 72, Anthem were the seeds for us.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 26, 2010 6:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

Yep; that's my story as well, and I am sticking to it...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 26, 2010 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

that is only because you and Hal are OLD!!!!

:)


(to me, in the early 70's, the word "tape" only existed if it had the word "scotch" before it)

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Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 26, 2010 9:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

LOL, better old and to have seen 70's shows than young and not!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 26, 2010 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

very true, very true

i feel old enough to have seen some 70's shows which proves that life is just not fair

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Aug 25, 2010 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

"a smart move in the end"

Wow, that is so ripe for comment that I would almost feel embarassed taking you to task for it.

But as to the subject, I agree that taping is largely responsible not only for the success of the band while intact, but also the continued success today. There are quite a few folks in these parts who never saw the boys as the Grateful Dead, but only the various offshoots that started after the fat man's death. Don't think that would have been enough to spark the devoted interest that the free access has provided.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 25, 2010 8:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Finacial Dead Head alert.

This is why in prior threads about the whole "pull the SBDS?" and so on, I have always felt the bigger issue was "how much do they owe us for spreading the word?" (ie, the tapers, tape makers, tape loaners, etc., etc.). Tongue in cheek, but really, I do believe it's a critical question that's perhaps unanswerable, but that's our stock in trade? Or trade in stock? Whatever...

My own answer is that it was critical...I do differ from many though, in that in contrast to Dire, thank Gawd for that, I did come to the band by the studio releases, and only later did tapes factor in (after I saw them live and wanted more, etc.). I had missed the late 60s except second hand through the brothers and their concert going friends, but by the time I could go on my own, only the DEAD were available, so to speak, and the studio background motivated me to seek them out.

So, let Bob know I have kids to put thru college, okay? When they "fix" the royalties owed us, I will send in my tapes and address book of those that rec'd them...unless of course, this will get me in trouble. Hmmm...I know nothing, nothing about it.